Olivia Gude: Yes. But see this is an example of I think a letter campaign, basically. You're writing to Metra. You're writing articles in the Hyde Park paper. And it basically says, "We believe in development." It's great to do all this cool stuff in the train stations. But we don't have to choose between development and loss. That development can be a rehonoring of cultural heritage. This is what you do. Mitchell [Cattan] is the one who said this. I just burst into tears when I read this in a report when we were doing a tribute to Mitchell in our CPAG newsletter, when he died a couple of years ago. In his report that he filed on "Man's Inhumanity to Man," which is still in the archives of CPAG, basically says there may come a day when this mural no longer speak to the community. Then it may be torn down. But for now, the important thing is that this mural is about the community. What's happening here. There may come a day when it no longer speaks to it. Then its time is gone. But it makes this balance. I think that's one of the things that a lot of us as muralists really take to heart. I think we have to ask as an individual. I'm not for preserving every mural that was ever painted. But on an individual case-by-case basis, we need to look at these things and say, "Is this significant? Does this represent a real cultural loss to let this go?" I think that the kids by educating them about the work by having them have this activist publicity component including an activist demonstration. Like having your kids do a demonstration or hold a press conference in front of a mural about, "Save our cultural legacy." This could be some really interesting work. Kids really think about it. The other thing that's so interesting about that I think for the students is because it basically [inaudible] issues, "What is your culture?" Is your culture what you see on TV? Is your culture what someone made in your community? I mean those are complex questions. But the notion of actually claiming a culture and then working to defend it I think is a really important and significant part of an education. So I just wanted to go through a couple of other of these. This one is just kind of there. It's not under immediate threat. Carol [Yasko] is still alive. I don't know if you know her. She lives in Hyde Park. I totally recommend you get involved with her.

M2: What are you saying?

Olivia Gude: Carol [Yasko], who painted this. Oh, I'm sorry, I mean Astrid Fuller. She lives in Hyde Park. I've got her number if you want to call me.

M2: Yes.

Olivia Gude: She's retired, now.

M2: She used to be probably the most well-known and the one everybody talked about 20 years ago.

Olivia Gude: Right. But I mean I've talked to her about if she wanted to get interested in restoring stuff. She didn't, really. But I think then that one of the things that might happen is a campaign for the mural restoration, and of course if she doesn't want to restore it, we can always let someone else do it under her guidance. But I actually think she's someone you could coax out to the wall, personally.

M2: This is quite a daring picture, too. Actually it's showing the kind of industrialization and corruption of education. Over here they show little kids, and you're not too clear if they're human here, and then they're being turned into a product, here, by an industrial product. Over here, it shows politicians sort of gambling for the money that's supposed to go to schools. It's a daring picture, and it's put up right across from the school. It's like throwing down the challenge to modern education.

Olivia Gude: This is a great mural to read for the political allegory of it. It's a wonderful piece.

M2: That's a little bit closer up. This is very badly damaged. You really have to look at it to see all the things.

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