V2: How long ago were you a [inaudible] teacher?

Olivia Gude: Three years ago.

V2: How long were you there?

Olivia Gude: Fifteen years. Something like that.

M: My voice is totally exhausted.

V2: Tim Black was there when I was there.

Olivia Gude: Dr. Black was the principal?

V2: He wasn't the principal, then. He was [inaudible]

M2: I taught in the 1960s in Hyde Park, also.

V2: Oh.

M2: I knew Tim way back. He's a great, great guy.

V2: Yes.

M2: But anyway, before we go on to the next person, why don't you tell everybody but particularly Olivia what you're planning to work on for the project.

Olivia Gude: Well, work on Mr. Meisenberg's contemporary folklore museum. Have you seen any of the sculptures? I don't know on what street-40-whatever-41st Street?

M2: 41st and Lake Park.

Olivia Gude: Yes. If you have a chance, just to go out there. It's a series of wooden sculptures.

M2: We had an appointment to see him, but when we got there, he didn't answer the door.

M: Yes. That's why I was wondering how he was doing recently, now.

M2: He looks like he's doing pretty well, but he says that it affects his memory. Obviously, it's beaten him down a lot. He lives around four or five vacant lots on the corner of 41st and Lake Park. When he moved in, it was just a terrible neighborhood. But it's changing rapidly, now. When he did his work and when he moved in, it was a terrible neighborhood. He was already a sculptor. He moved in and started redoing his house. He started working on these lots. Then he convinced the City to put up these big, old dead trees in these lots, and he sculpted them. He sculpted them into beautiful shapes, using a chainsaw. In fact, he learned how to work with a chainsaw, just so he could do that. He hadn't been a chainsaw artist, before. It's just wonderful to see these things. It's such a great thing.

M: Do you know the Jeff [inaudible] article in the Reader?

Olivia Gude: You showed it to me.

M2: Oh, yes. It's a great article. It's very good. If anyone's interested, I can send it to you by e-mail.

M: You know, there's a lot of interesting Reader articles over the years on murals. Unfortunately, The Reader is not an indexed publication. But in the bibliography of that book on Chicago that Jeff and I wrote, you actually can get the number of Reader articles that are on different subjects of, like, the Mural movement.

Olivia Gude: Is that how Jay got that article? He e-mailed it to me. I couldn't believe it; it's a huge article.

M: I don't know. Maybe he saved it.

Olivia Gude: How'd you get that article?

M: Is that how you got it in the bibliography?

M2: Well no, I talked to Milton Meisenburg, and he told me about the article. Then I went online to The Reader and I found it. But the archived articles you have to pay a certain amount like $2.50 or something. So I paid for it and then I copied it off.

M: Oh, great. Yes. The bad thing about the Reader is that it's not indexed. There's all this great Chicago history buried in there.

M2: If you do a search from its web page, you can find it.

M: Right. The newer things are getting easier than the stuff from five years ago.

M2: I think we passed this around. I mean it's incomparably better than anything else.

M: Have you seen Mary Grey's book?

M2: It's not incomparably better than Mary Grey's.

M: A different orientation. I think they're nice companions, both of those books that've come out in recent years.

M2: Mary Grey's book deals with murals. But most of the murals are in buildings. These are outside and we're interested in outside work. So anyway, let's continue. Amy, introduce yourself. Tell us who you are. We never saw you before.

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